A UC Berkeley researcher co-authored a study that raises profound questions about how we interact with artificial intelligence in education — and daily life.
A lot of pro AI people like to compare LLMs to calculators but it’s not comparable at all unless the math you’re doing is simple arithmetic. If you’re doing calculus, the skill you’re working on isn’t arithmetic, so the calculator isn’t much of a factor. Lots of people forget how to do long division after using calculators on the other hand.
Losing skills you had because of help? That shouldn’t happen.
That’s exactly what should happen. Cognitive thinking skills are use it or lose it. If you use an LLM to replace your brain, your brain will get worse.
It’s funny because I actually think learning math the old fashioned way is super important. I used to struggle with math a lot as I’d always had calculators. I went back as an adult and got some old 1980s math textbooks based on Soviet pedagogy (widely considered the best for math at the time) and the impact has been huge. I’ve been building from the ground up math skills that got entirely skipped in school, and feel much better about it now. Calculators are useful but when LEARNING math they should not be used imo. Except maybe to check an answer after you already get it. Doing difficult things is good.
Tech evangelists rely heavily on logical fallacies. False equivalence is one of the main ones. “A thing happened before therefore this tech is nothing to worry about”. They’re redirecting the argument to bait people to try to prove why calculators are bad. But of course the past already happened and nobody is going prove otherwise.
Yep, especially in mathematics a calculator is not much of a help in calculus. The moment you put numbers in whatever thing you wanna solve is the point where the hard part is already done.
That’s an issue with your teacher putting the focus on the wrong part. Sorry you had to experience that. My math skills (which were mediocre at best at the time i left school) skyrocketed the moment i got a teacher that made sure we understood the calculus part and didn’t even want us to insert real numbers.
but it’s not comparable at all unless the math you’re doing is simple arithmetic.
That’s what they were studying on the math side
For the first experiment with 354 participants, one group was tasked with solving 15 basic fraction problems
Also
If you’re doing calculus, the skill you’re working on isn’t arithmetic, so the calculator isn’t much of a factor.
Calculators would be a big factor in solving calculus problems. Haven’t done calculus in a while but if I recall correctly you are breaking down or rearranging the problem into smaller steps that are more basic arithmetic. One part of a calculus problem could be finding out what the square root of 7 is , if you have a calculator to do that you’re more likely to solve the problem more accurately and to not give up on the problem, which were the two metrics this study was looking at.
Realistically, you would just write root 7 as a coefficient of your answer if you’re performing this math long hand. No one really expects anyone to be able to calculate things like that.
Over time yes, but this says skills were lost during a single session or short term. It was a random group of people, so unknown on what skills they did have before. I think what they observed wasn’t a permanent loss, but a placebo effect of having extra help and it was taken away, so for the rest of the test they felt lacking.
My example of calculators was implying one that could do the test work. All calculators have trig functions, and some have calculus abilities. Would a student forget how to find cosine if the calculator was taken away, or do a derivative of a function? Not in one test. But if they were using it first half and then had to do it themselves for the rest, I imagine there’s some psychological stuff going on that makes you feel like you’ve lost that skill.
A lot of pro AI people like to compare LLMs to calculators but it’s not comparable at all unless the math you’re doing is simple arithmetic. If you’re doing calculus, the skill you’re working on isn’t arithmetic, so the calculator isn’t much of a factor. Lots of people forget how to do long division after using calculators on the other hand.
That’s exactly what should happen. Cognitive thinking skills are use it or lose it. If you use an LLM to replace your brain, your brain will get worse.
It’s funny because I actually think learning math the old fashioned way is super important. I used to struggle with math a lot as I’d always had calculators. I went back as an adult and got some old 1980s math textbooks based on Soviet pedagogy (widely considered the best for math at the time) and the impact has been huge. I’ve been building from the ground up math skills that got entirely skipped in school, and feel much better about it now. Calculators are useful but when LEARNING math they should not be used imo. Except maybe to check an answer after you already get it. Doing difficult things is good.
Tech evangelists rely heavily on logical fallacies. False equivalence is one of the main ones. “A thing happened before therefore this tech is nothing to worry about”. They’re redirecting the argument to bait people to try to prove why calculators are bad. But of course the past already happened and nobody is going prove otherwise.
Yep, especially in mathematics a calculator is not much of a help in calculus. The moment you put numbers in whatever thing you wanna solve is the point where the hard part is already done.
Speak for yourself lol. I failed calculus the first time because my algebra skills were shit and it had nothing to do with calculus
That’s an issue with your teacher putting the focus on the wrong part. Sorry you had to experience that. My math skills (which were mediocre at best at the time i left school) skyrocketed the moment i got a teacher that made sure we understood the calculus part and didn’t even want us to insert real numbers.
I hate that I never had a good math teacher and that the ones I had made me hate maths.
I would love to like maths, but there’s too much trauma there.
I’ve taught myself what I’ve needed for work, but it has never been a pleasant experience.
Bad math teachers are a plague on humanity.
That’s what they were studying on the math side
Also
Calculators would be a big factor in solving calculus problems. Haven’t done calculus in a while but if I recall correctly you are breaking down or rearranging the problem into smaller steps that are more basic arithmetic. One part of a calculus problem could be finding out what the square root of 7 is , if you have a calculator to do that you’re more likely to solve the problem more accurately and to not give up on the problem, which were the two metrics this study was looking at.
Realistically, you would just write root 7 as a coefficient of your answer if you’re performing this math long hand. No one really expects anyone to be able to calculate things like that.
Over time yes, but this says skills were lost during a single session or short term. It was a random group of people, so unknown on what skills they did have before. I think what they observed wasn’t a permanent loss, but a placebo effect of having extra help and it was taken away, so for the rest of the test they felt lacking.
My example of calculators was implying one that could do the test work. All calculators have trig functions, and some have calculus abilities. Would a student forget how to find cosine if the calculator was taken away, or do a derivative of a function? Not in one test. But if they were using it first half and then had to do it themselves for the rest, I imagine there’s some psychological stuff going on that makes you feel like you’ve lost that skill.
They were tested on fractions
Did you use an LLM to summarize the study for you or something?
And reading comprehension.
We’re discussing the effects of the test, not what the test was.
The content of the test is relevant to the outcome