wonderingwanderer

Birthday parties are overrated. I haven’t had one since I was 15.

I thought you said you blocked me? Go away.

“But China is a communist utopia!!! It’s a dictatorship of the proletariat! Any criticism of the CCP is western propaganda!!!”

-tankies

Username checks out.

Tankies will always find any excuse to say China can do no wrong, and if they do it’s the west’s fault…

“We had to massacre those protesters, you see. The US was targeting our military assets! It’s their fault.” Golly.

Stalin was nominally communist, functionally fascist. It’s not an absurd distinction to make, for anyone capable of understanding nuance.

You’re so fucking dense. You’re the one making strawmen. Just because you can’t comprehend my argument doesn’t mean it’s meaningless.

I know what leftism is, and I know that fascism is a far-right-wing ideology. I’ve stated that in plain terms multiple times, but you ignore that because it gives you an easier attack surface to pretend that I didn’t.

I never said all people who are left-wing are fascists. I said tankies are basically the same as fascists. If you think all left-wingers are tankies, and anyone who’s not a tankie isn’t really left-wing, then you’re a fucking tankie! And you’re the one saying anyone who disagrees with you is bad, so stop projecting that shit on to me.

It doesn’t fucking matter what ideology tankies hold, if their methodology is “kill anyone who doesn’t agree with us,” then they’re no better than fascists! That’s why they’re functionally the same in my eyes. You’re repeatedly ignoring the nuance of my argument to give yourself an easy target to knock down. That’s called a fucking strawman.

Tankies are bad. But I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. You’re just upset that I pointed out that you’re acting like a tankie, and that’s something a tankie would do. “No, I’m not a tankie! I just believe anyone who isn’t a bolshevik is a class traitor!”

You’re right about one thing though: nothing of value is lost when you block me. Good fucking riddance.

because you disagree with two things doesn’t make them equal

Fascists often say “Just because you disagree with [fascism] doesn’t make it evil!” as a way to deflect from their own moral culpability in their belief systems.

you’re doing the same stupidity liberals do

I’d rather be a liberal than a fucking tankie. If I had to describe myself, I’m somewhere on the spectrum between social democrat and democratic socialist. If that makes me a liberal to you, then so be it.

since anyone who opposes it is obviously an evil authoritarian asshole.

No, that’s what tankies do, accusing anyone who disagrees with them as being evil. I only accuse authoritarian assholes of being evil, and I do that whether they’re tankies or literal fascists.

I’m not a tankie, yet you keep referring to me as such.

Well you’re pulling a lot of water for tankies by trying to defend them…

You’re also pretending some schizo posting is an article in Pravda… You make a strawman of what tankies believe

No, but something doesn’t have to be an official party line for me to recognize patterns and trends. Tankies are all over the internet, especially on lemmy, peddling their bullshit. Don’t fucking gaslight me by pretending that doesn’t mean anything.

…then claim anyone who disagrees with you is such

Again, no, I dont claim anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I claim anyone who acts like a tankie, talks like a tankie, posts like a tankie, and argues in defense of tankies, is a tankie.

What you’re doing is no different from when the literal fascists say “You can’t just call anyone who disagrees with you a fascist!” I don’t. I call fascists fascists.

In both cases there’s a specific set of criteria they have to meet in order to reach that threshold. And in both cases those criteria include being overbearing, authoritarian extremists, glorifying violence, and being either intellectually dishonest or stunted. Whether they’re doing it in the name of ethnonationalism or proletarian revolution is small change compared to those aspects.

And if you’re about to label me as an “enemy of the proletariat” just because I’m against revolution until all possible alternatives have been exhausted, just know that that’s something a tankie would do also.

The terms you use certainly imply that.

No, never once did I claim tankies are literal fascists or hold fascist ideologies. I said they act the same. From the get-go, I specified that I was referring to methodology rather than ideology. If you’re incapable of making that distinction, that’s on you.

Um, no, I’ve put plenty of thought into it and that’s why I said it in the first place. I wouldn’t be arguing something that I’ve never put thought into, because I’m not an idiot. But thanks for assuming that I am solely because you disagree with what I’m saying.

but since the Bolsheviks took it, they own it.

Bolsheviks, tankies, what’s the fucking difference? (Yes, I know historically they refer to specific groups, but in practice today, anyone who identifies with bolshevik ideology is a tankie). I don’t fucking care about the nuances of trotskyism vs leninism, they were both assholes.

And you consider everyone who doesn’t swallow your particular brand of ineffective purity a tankie, it seems.

No, I don’t have a brand of ideological purity. That’s another thing tankies share with the far-right: you’re so zealously committed to your ideology that not only is there no room in your worldview for anyone to hold different opinions, but you also project your fanaticism onto everyone else, so in your eyes anyone who firmly rejects your ideology on rational grounds or otherwise has a more nuanced view, you accuse of the ideological purism that’s actually your own.

And no, calling out tankies for being authoritarian (by calling them red fash) is not the same thing as allying with capitalists and fascists. Yet another thing tankies have in common with the far-right: they think anyone who isn’t on their side is on the opposite side. Tankies are fucking assholes, fascists are fucking assholes. Both things can be true at once, and I’m not being inconsistent by calling them both out in the same paragraph.

Capitalism is destroying the planet and it’s been oppressing and exploiting the majority of humanity since it was invented as a concept, and its precursors have been doing so since before even then. But guess what? I can be a socialist without being a tankie. And that’s another thing tankies share with the far-right: they think all socialists have to be radicalized, fanatic, authoritarian communists.

Which brings us back to the beginning of this conversation: I was criticizing tankies for accusing Mamdani of being a fascist, which is a ridiculous assertion on all levels. He’s a democratic socialist. Two things fascists hate: democracy and socialism. He stands for both, in a time when such leadership is rare. Definitely not a fascist.

But if in your worldview a fascist is anyone who’s not a bolshevik, then we have very different definitions of fascism, and yours is not the correct one. And by the way, if that’s what you believe, then you’re not as different from the fascists as you think you are (need I repeat that refers to methodology rather than ideology, or in terms any erudite communist should understand, praxis rather than theoria. I’m not so fucking stupid that I think communists and fascists believe in the same ideals. But they believe in the same means which they believe their opposing ends justify).

So no, while I’d be onboard with dismantling fascism, if your proposed course of action is a bolshevik revolution then I firmly disagree.

Cause I totally invented the term “red fash” and that’s not something that a fairly large portion of people already recognize and find to be a helpful concept?

Because authoritarianism, ideological purism, and militarism are sooo different when the people perpetuating them call themselves leftists. Not the same thing at all as the people doing the same things in the name of the nation-state, ethnoreligion, and capital. (/s for anyone who missed it).

Lenin killed a bunch of communists after they beat him in an election. But he called himself a communist, so tankies gobble his dick. Tankies love sabotaging electoral processes so they can claim it doesn’t work.

The top comment on this chain says:

I dunno I’m in favor of telling businesses to shut themselves down.

And that’s what I was referring to with what I said.

Pay attention to the fucking context of the conversation you’re having and stop making strawmen such as suggesting I’m supporting oligarchy and the status quo by saying “Don’t shut down the bodegas” or “it’s magical thinking to expect everyone will grow their own food after capitalism.”

That’s fine. The real world is messy; it’s never about “good versus bad,” it’s always about “better in this context versus worse in this context.”

China does some things better, like green energy. They’re also pretty bad in some areas, like worker’s rights, political representation, and human rights in general.

That being said, if they saved us from trump, I for one would welcome our new yuan-based overlords.

China is still a capitalist country though. It’s state capitalism, but capitalism nonetheless. Calling themselves communist is really just branding.

Based on some other comments though, clearly tankies in the west don’t understand that there can be a discrepancy between what one calls oneself and what one truly is. Oh well…

Well things aren’t gonna magically go back to the way things were just because someone makes all the businesses shut down. There was always commerce, even before corporations and capitalism. Thinking there was ever a time when everyone grew their own food is false.

Hence the comment chain where we’re ragging on a commenter saying to shut down all the businesses with no foresight into what would result. Some random dude running a bodega is not a capitalist oligarch.

I honestly can’t tell if you’re being facetious or not…

I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a tankie. I said anyone who accuses Mamdani of being a fascist is a tankie. That’s a delusion no one but a tankie would hold.

You’d be surprised. I read about a time when there was a power outage in moscow, and for the span of a few hours there were hardly any trolls active on reddit

I don’t save links to every comment I ever read, don’t be ridiculous.

My comment history has nothing to do with it. Admitting to stalking my profile doesn’t prove any point.

I know precisely what fascism is, and the dumbfuck tankies accusing Mamdani of it are absolutely wrong.

I said they’re the same in praxis, not ideology. You’d think a fucking leftist would understand the difference.

And your picture is kind of a strawman in this context, because I wasn’t using “horseshoe politics” to describe phenomena of the abolition era. I was using it to describe phenomena of the current era where the contexts are different. But since tankies are allergic to nuance, I don’t suppose you’ll be comprehend that and you’ll probably just resort to ad hominems.

Fuck off, tankie.

Eastern Orthodoxy is not an offshoot of Catholicism. They were both the same church until the schism, when they excommunicated each other.

The Pope traces his apostolic succession back to Peter, but the patriarchs of the Eastern Orthodox church trace theirs back to the other apostles. Originally, the various patriarchates were co-equal, until the Roman church began stylizing itself as the “first among equals” citing some obscure passage where Jesus had a bromance moment with Peter.

The Roman church was never in a position of authority over the other patriarchates, and when the Pope began trying to assert himself that way, the other churches began distancing themselves. The actual schism happened when that tension shattered over different interpretations of one line in the Nicean Creed.

If anything, the Roman Catholic church is an offshoot of Eastern Orthodoxy, which maintained its Ecumenical Council among the various patriarchates throughout its history.

Calling Eastern Orthodoxy an offshoot of Roman Catholicism is a very catholo-centric and misinformed take. And citing Canon Law is silly, because Rome strayed further from the original Canons than Eastern Orthodoxy ever did.

I guess the anarchists are all planning to grow their own vegetables, then? In… the middle of NYC…

I’ve seen tankies trying to call him fascist on lemmy, and I called them out and said how wrong they are. They responded by calling me a zionist and accusing me of supporting genocide…

These are not rational people arguing in good faith…