I’m tempted to move to email with my own domain, but don’t really care about the server side of things, I guess I’m following the line that self hosted email is not easy to do, and not sure how reliable I can make my servers.
The other option is to have some other system do the email hosting, and if it is through my domain then there should be no issues with moving around if needed. Hosting all the email archive isn’t really needed either, I’d be fine self hosting or storing the archive.
Is there a set up where some remote service handles email exchange, and you just sync with it eg through POP style interfaces? Id actually prefer if my own server was doing the sync rather than a desktop running Thunderbird etc, that way it is kind of self hosted but also robust to down time. What’s the best practice along these lines?
I’ve taken the second approach you mentioned: I own the domain, host my email with a service provider (I use Zoho Mail), and manage my DNS through Cloudflare. Here are three insights I’ve gained from this experience.
First, by managing your email provider and domain DNS separately, if you ever want to switch providers in the future, you’ll only need to update the MX and a few TXT records. Your email address will remain the same, and others won’t even notice.
Second, set up SPF, DKIM, and DMARC right from the start. Be sure to enter the recipient address for DMARC aggregate reports so you can receive daily reports showing which servers are sending emails using your domain and whether they’ve passed verification.
Third, even if a new domain passes all three checks, emails sent to Outlook may still end up in the spam folder at first. This is because the new domain lacks a reputation. It’s not a configuration error, and it takes time to gradually build that reputation.
FWIW, from what I read, the difficulty in selfhosting email is mainly in how to not get your outgoing mail insta-plonked by increasingly fussy and moody spam filters. Shows up that a huge percentage of receivers are now on gmail, trailed by a few other major players like M$, and you’re on their whimsy, with no way to appeal plonk decisions (and challenging to even find out if they plonked or not). This was reported so even before the era of “AI”, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were even harder now.
Sounds almost like the corpos have a monopoly on email.
Not entirely true. I do selfhost my Email Server however I do it for 20 years so the IP associated has excellent reputation due to the long record of good behavior. So it is possible but it is an uphill struggle.
Yep, that’s exactly the sentiment I saw in people’s writing, that email has become almost centralized in practice, even though in theory it’s not. I saw this also generalized, that even successfuly promoted distributed/federated protocols still face the constant risk and challenge of becoming centralized in practice, when a major player manages to capture the majority of the field.
AFAIU, even Mastodon community needs to (and does) purposefully work on promoting alternative instances, so that not everybody ends up on mastodon.social…
POP isn’t sync; pop downloads all the messages locally and you tell the server what to do with them once they’re downloaded.
The result is that you have your messages on your device. But when you go to another device, it’s a different set of messages with different read status.
Unless something has changed, that’s how it worked last time I used POP and that’s why everyone used IMAP now that there’s multiple devices (phones, laptops) in play.
You’re right about self hosting email; it’s a pain.
I meant IMAP really, just got the terms mixed up, thanks
I used IMAP with my ISP, I had a technical question about something and the tech worker bee was surprised that they still offered IMAP as everything for the worker bees end had been moved to exchange. I read up on it after the chit chat and it appeared they where looking at transitioning everyone over to exchange in the coming years, so I created an away message to my ISP mail, forwarding stuff from there to one aand address at my domains IMAP server full time slowly adding things to the do not forward list.
Is exchange like a microsoft system?
It is an “open standard” developed ny mucreoslop as I understand it.
Yes, there is Exchange Server to host it yourself or Exchange Online which is the subscription based cloud service (Microsoft 365).
IMAP is the protocol you probably want.
I’m quite happy with “Mail In A Box” as a platform for hosting mail locally with clients.
There are companies that will do inbound spam filtering and outbound mail relaying to ensure high reputation for outgoing main also. I have clients on duocircle but they’re grandfathered in on reasonably priced plans (the new plans are probably a little expensive for self hosted home mail)
Or JMAP, which is IMAP that doesn’t suck.
How so?
See JMAP Destroy All Monsters by the protocol author for an intro.
Its basically IMAP, WebDAV, and CalDAV, plus a few other things, in one protocol. It greatly simplifies and unifies communications over a modern HTTPS connection while being an open standard.
Good point, I assumed email was asynchronous on the client side but needed to be online on the server side. If it is robust to server down time that makes it easier
Just recently, someone wrote about https://github.com/stalwartlabs/stalwart here. It is literally an all-in-one server, so it’s quite hard to mess up.
Email itself is an unreliable delivery method, so usually, if a server cannot send an email to the recipient’s server, it puts it in a queue and tries again after some time. Therefore, a few hours of downtime won’t affect you much. Especially if you don’t need an archive of your correspondence.
So I still recommend trying to run your own full server with stalwart. At most, a couple of days of problems, and then it will work for years.
This is what Mozilla’s Thundermail service uses.
I run Stalwart for the server, Bulwark for the webmail frontend (using JMAP), and SMTP2GO for outgoing mail (free tier is more than enough).
I use the exact same stack. It’s been working great!
Can confirm. Stalwart is really nice. They very recently released their 1.0 version. It was a couple days of issues, then later I broke it again for a few days. Other that that, the server hosting end of it has been very smooth. There is another project that goes well with it called Bulwark. The pair of those have been stable and reliable for me for months now.
How does it work with network security, do you need to have a SMTP port open to the net?
That would depend on your deployment set up. I do not do that, but many people do. I have a very bespoke ingress route that I coded myself. It consists of a serverless cloudflare edge worker to catch emails, break them into a JSON that is sent over a tunnel to cloudflared as a post. This post is directed at containerized python program that rebuilds the email and that container is the only thing with access to deliver mail to the container running stalwart.
The reason I do this is not security though. It was a personal project more or less to see if it could be done and if it was reliable. Particularly to see if i could make a secure delivery method to bypass my ISPs CGNAT without paying for and maintaining a VPS. So far so good. And it has no monthly fee.
Most people I know of (with CGNAT limitations) are just using a cheap VPS with open ports and then the VPS either has the email server there or a tunnel to the SMTP server. If you have a static IP or a DDNS set up where you can properly port forward, that works too.
What does Bulwark do? Link?
https://bulwarkmail.org/ it’s a web mail client that can fully utilize jmap with Stalwart. Its very snappy and the maintainer is very active. They also put together a good android native client and they are working on one for iOS.
POP needs to die a painful death, in the year 2026 when you have multiple devices POP is not the answer, IMAP is the way. Sure you can self host your own email, but you will either need a static IP at home or a VPS with a static IP, than you need to make sure either one is cool with you hosting your email through there. You will need more than a week to figure things out and by the end of the week you will have pulled out all of your hair, I stopped trying going into a few days!
My suggestion however is to get someone else to host your email, the company that hosts my domain name and my VPS also hosts my email. I think I got 4 addresses with them but they have a wildcard option so that I can have infinite email address; so I can block things if they get spammy, I no longer want to see them, I no longer use their services, or I want a longer free trial which I may have done 2 or 3 times.
POP and IMAP are still alive.
Services are currently drop POP3 support. Gmail and Microsoft among them. I would consider it obsolete.
IMAP is very much alive but has so many pain points that JMAP was created to replace it, along with CardDAV and CalDAV for calendar and contacts.
Fastmail created and uses JMAP and Stalwart has first-class support for it.
Can you imagine how many fucks I give about what “services” like Microsoft drops?
The difficulty of self hosting your own email is high, but if you aim to do it, i would recommend Stalwart for self hosting. POP is not what you want as other people are saying. There is also a newer protocal to IMAP called JMAP.
Some things to consider are your inbound and outbound mail paths.
For incoming: Do you have a VPS to be your entry point? Or do you plan to port forward (assuming you even can given the prevalence of CGNAT)? There is also a way to teach a web worker like the kind cloudflare let’s you use for free to break the email down and POST it to a listener in your server across a tunnel and the listener can put it back together into an email at your server and drop it off. That being the only way I have found to get inbound mail behind a double NAT (CGNAT) without a VPS.
For outbound, if you send stuff to major SMTP providers from a residential IP they will block it or mark as spam pretty heavily. You may want to consider a relay to make sure people actually see what you send. Brevo has a free tier, SMTP2Go is solid. There are others as well.
There are other considerations like how will the end user interact with the mail server? I host a Bulwark instance and really love what they are doing with the project, but there are quite a few options for that.
If you end up giving it a go, good luck, and know that it is possible!
What about JMAP, guys? Is that cool?
One of the reasons I decided to self host email was specifically to use jmap.
Really! Tell me more about it, if you want! I’m excited to learn. 😊
This page has a good overview. Its smaller, it’s faster, it makes more sense to implement, it’s easier to communicate with. POP3 and IMAP are really old. People don’t here much about it because big email providers have no reason to change or improve. For instance, many can’t handle IPV6 still.
It’s basically IMAP but using JSON. That’s the J in JMAP.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
Fewer Letters More Letters CGNAT Carrier-Grade NAT DNS Domain Name Service/System IMAP Internet Message Access Protocol for email ISP Internet Service Provider NAT Network Address Translation POP3 Post Office Protocol v3, for email; contrast IMAP SMTP Simple Mail Transfer Protocol VPS Virtual Private Server (opposed to shared hosting)
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You can have a hosted e-mail system with your own domain, many service providers will do this. They would have the storage, archive, etc. on their servers. Access would be a web client, e-mail client of your choice, or a bridge demon. Option 2 is a hosted vertual server, so your self hosting but renting a VM server on a providers data center, they take care of the hardware, power, backup (sometimes depending on service), etc. You would set up your OS and e-mail services.
I use a combo of this, I have a service with my own domain and point my MX records there, I use a bridge and a sctipt to pull backups and store them locally but use their email clients for mobile and Thunderbird on PCs.
Edit: FWIW I’ve been using Proton (paid version) for this but will be moving to hosted virtual server at some point, when I get a minute to migrate. I expect the cost to be about the same
You can use
imapsyncto keep a local synced copy your email in maildir format. That, along with a domain you own, solves the “I own my own email sycned to my server” problem pretty much completely. Switching email providers is just syncing to the new server (whichimapsyncsupports) and updating your MX records on your domain.Some email clients (like
aerc) can just operate on the maildir directly. That’s what I do, but there are lots of ways to do this.One option is to just keep using your email client the way you are now talking directly to your mailserver, and just rely on the
imapsyncside to be your owned backup/migration path.Alternatively you can run your own local IMAP or POP server like Dovecot backed by the local maildir. So that’s
imapsync -> dovecot -> thunderbird (or similar). It’s a little more software to set up, but once it’s set up it should be very reliable and gives you total control over what email client you use and full ownership of your data.Thanks, that sounds useful.
Do you know of a self hosted webmail interface that has good features? So I guess that would run on the self hosted mail archive after imapsync.
I don’t have any personal experience with self hosted webmail. I know there are a bunch out there and definitely both options that can sit in front of a maildir and options that can sit in front of a POP/IMAP server like Dovecot.
I did a little googling, and if I wanted to set this up, the first thing I’d check out is something like
imapsync -> dovecot -> Roundcube.Dovecot provides a really reliable maildir -> IMAP/POP conversion layer, and once you’ve got that, most things should work.
Is there a set up where some remote service handles email exchange, and you just sync with it eg through POP style interfaces?
Yup, that’s signing up for a email provider. I wouldn’t call that self hosting since you’re just referring to email client software on your end to store the emails that are being synchronized at the email provider’s hosted server(s).
IMAP is sync so that might be what you meant. POP is even older but that’s for downloading only. And SMTP is for sending.
Those all still exist, most paid email providers still offer them just make sure to check before signing up. It’s harder to find that with free email providers, they usually disable IMAP/POP/SMTP on free accounts.
