I hate the phrase “Made with AI” for many nested reasons. Some of which:
“AI” is a meaningless buzzword now.
“Made” to what extent? That could be anything line autocompletion to spammy vibecoding, from invisible diffusion prototyping/editing to horrific in-game visuals.
The tone is “Twitter accusatory.” It ropes in innocent, minimal tool usage with full-on spammers, with zero nuance.
Its a red herring for the fundamental issue: waves of games being spammy slop, which was a huge issue even before “AI.”
It also discounts the other ethical issues we were grappling with. If we are going to talk ethics, are we just going to forget what companies like EA or Blizzard and such have done?
This needs to be discussed like a spectrum, and whether the intent is malicious. Not as a purity test of “was any AI used making this game?”
Slop is a byproduct of instrumental convergence, which is a byproduct of an individualist extractive culture.
You had the same backlash around CGI and digital artwork back when those things were novel, and neither were responsible for the wave of shitty Disney animated sequels, which was a prominent form of industrial slop at the turn of the millennium.
Intelligence is collective and shared, and the support systems for creators make them dependant of claiming “ownership” which is blatantly impossible to attach to things like “style,” so you get kids on tumblr fighting each other over who had a specific anime inspired aesthetic ‘first.’
Also see how certain inventions get invented in completely different environments at the same time. A lot of invention is just luck mixed with the privilege of being allowed to comfortably explore that space while still getting to survive, so the current social structure allows those with more of such privilege to claim ownership in the entire area of thought or action, limiting everyone else for the sake of the individual, or the system which they are supporting, who got the right mix of serendipity and privilege. (mixed with personal context and probably a lot of hard work.)
So, basically our current society makes slop inevitable, while privilege the wealthy, and ensuring the poor endlessly fight for scraps while the wealthy continue to extract and hoard.
I wish people care as much about system shaping as they care about conflating artists and ‘artists’ in usage of a specific tool.
It also discounts the other ethical issues we were grappling with. If we are going to talk ethics, are we just going to forget what companies like EA or Blizzard and such have done?
Lost me on the last bullet point. Saying we can’t address any issue without addressing every issue is an effective way of getting nothing addressed.
It’s like saying “all lives matter”. Yes, all issues matter, but this just derails the conversation instead of letting them have their own space to be discussed.
To clarify some, I meant these older sins have fallen out of consumers’ attention because of the attention on generated assets. It shouldn’t. That context is important.
IMO it would be inconsistent to loudly boycott some indie dev over (say) some diffusion generated assets, then turn around and buy an Activision or EA game in the same breath. That kind of purist absolutism isn’t productive; the larger context matters.
Or the software stacks the gamers are running, for that matter. The APIs, the platforms… as examples, do people really think Valve isn’t using LLMs to develop Steam? Or Nvidia/AMD/Intel/Microsoft for their graphics stacks?
And I don’t mean that as a hostile “you participate in society?” thing, just that it’s inconsistent to judge “AI or no AI” as black and white.
That seems to leave room for fully vibe coded apps as long as it’s made with real thought and effort. Some of the anti-AI absolutists are going to have a problem with that.
I’ve always interpreted it as not actually typing any of the code yourself. At least that seems to be the way people that are angry about it are using it.
That’s the line I draw. Same with art or anything else. I’m okay with using AI as an oracle or a tool to check work but the finished product should be human brain -> human hands -> project
I hate the phrase “Made with AI” for many nested reasons. Some of which:
“AI” is a meaningless buzzword now.
“Made” to what extent? That could be anything line autocompletion to spammy vibecoding, from invisible diffusion prototyping/editing to horrific in-game visuals.
The tone is “Twitter accusatory.” It ropes in innocent, minimal tool usage with full-on spammers, with zero nuance.
Its a red herring for the fundamental issue: waves of games being spammy slop, which was a huge issue even before “AI.”
It also discounts the other ethical issues we were grappling with. If we are going to talk ethics, are we just going to forget what companies like EA or Blizzard and such have done?
This needs to be discussed like a spectrum, and whether the intent is malicious. Not as a purity test of “was any AI used making this game?”
Slop is a byproduct of instrumental convergence, which is a byproduct of an individualist extractive culture.
You had the same backlash around CGI and digital artwork back when those things were novel, and neither were responsible for the wave of shitty Disney animated sequels, which was a prominent form of industrial slop at the turn of the millennium.
Intelligence is collective and shared, and the support systems for creators make them dependant of claiming “ownership” which is blatantly impossible to attach to things like “style,” so you get kids on tumblr fighting each other over who had a specific anime inspired aesthetic ‘first.’
Also see how certain inventions get invented in completely different environments at the same time. A lot of invention is just luck mixed with the privilege of being allowed to comfortably explore that space while still getting to survive, so the current social structure allows those with more of such privilege to claim ownership in the entire area of thought or action, limiting everyone else for the sake of the individual, or the system which they are supporting, who got the right mix of serendipity and privilege. (mixed with personal context and probably a lot of hard work.)
So, basically our current society makes slop inevitable, while privilege the wealthy, and ensuring the poor endlessly fight for scraps while the wealthy continue to extract and hoard.
I wish people care as much about system shaping as they care about conflating artists and ‘artists’ in usage of a specific tool.
Lost me on the last bullet point. Saying we can’t address any issue without addressing every issue is an effective way of getting nothing addressed.
It’s like saying “all lives matter”. Yes, all issues matter, but this just derails the conversation instead of letting them have their own space to be discussed.
To clarify some, I meant these older sins have fallen out of consumers’ attention because of the attention on generated assets. It shouldn’t. That context is important.
IMO it would be inconsistent to loudly boycott some indie dev over (say) some diffusion generated assets, then turn around and buy an Activision or EA game in the same breath. That kind of purist absolutism isn’t productive; the larger context matters.
we don’t address any issue here at Lemmy. We just complain.
Also, do we include dependencies too?
Because if we do… then almost every game is “Made with AI”, given now glibc has AI authored code in it too.
Or the software stacks the gamers are running, for that matter. The APIs, the platforms… as examples, do people really think Valve isn’t using LLMs to develop Steam? Or Nvidia/AMD/Intel/Microsoft for their graphics stacks?
And I don’t mean that as a hostile “you participate in society?” thing, just that it’s inconsistent to judge “AI or no AI” as black and white.
That’s what we call dependencies
Steam don’t count code generation, it’s mainly the art they flag
I fully support tagging the slop deluge with “Made with AI”.
It helps separate the low effort garbage from the artisan garbage
I am also very tired of dunking witches to see if they float like ducks because they are made of wood.
What is slop, though? What’s your definition?
Copy paste output without validation and/or effort.
That’s a good definition, in fact I am bookmarking that to remember later.
Slop is just low effort in my view.
So if you just generate with ai without any real thought, thats slop because it is low effort.
The people posting just the “never slop” kitto are low effort too.
That seems to leave room for fully vibe coded apps as long as it’s made with real thought and effort. Some of the anti-AI absolutists are going to have a problem with that.
Fuck absolutist in general and under any circumstances.
What does vibe coded mean to you?
As I understand vibe coded means just pressing enter without checking the code and understanding it?
I’ve always interpreted it as not actually typing any of the code yourself. At least that seems to be the way people that are angry about it are using it.
That’s the line I draw. Same with art or anything else. I’m okay with using AI as an oracle or a tool to check work but the finished product should be human brain -> human hands -> project
For me it doesn’t matter if you type it as long as you understand it and it makes sense how it is written.
I can get behind that definition.
Thanks for contributing nothing to the discussion. At this point LLMs are more insightful than you are.
…U mad bro?
I mean yeah, the person you’re replying to made it pretty clear they resent you
Which I agree with, you might as well be a bot
I was just trolling a little by copying someone else’s thread, no bad blood here.
Are you serious?
If they didn’t hire someone to generate code or art, then it’s slop.
Thanks for contributing nothing to the discussion. At this point LLMs are more insightful than you are.
Someone PWEASE think of the clankers’ feelings PWEEEEEASE 🥺
FWIW it wasted a few moments of my time wondering what point they were trying to make.
This reply is time well spent, that’s totally different.
Some shitposting will be easy to catch, funny, digestible & smart while being absolute worthless.
Some shitposting will be bad, some will be good.
But if anything, we can always count on it being shit 🫡
U mad bro?