I was so hyped when the EU pressured Apple into allowing external software on Apple devices.
Apple killed that hype making the change EU only, problem is I’m encapsulated in the walled garden with an iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Air Tags, HomePods.
Thinking of getting a second phone Android based to partially-escape the garden but if I ditch my iPhone all hell will break loose network wise.
I was you up until 3 months ago. I went nuclear and focused on the more open source side of android and have been so much happier for it. Sold everything to afford the changes.
Well, they did get them to switch to USB-C, so I’m not holding my breath, but I do hope that this will lead to more interoperability. I’m tired of Apple making Android/non-Apple users feel like second-class citizens.
I still don’t think that one was actually the EU’s doing. Macs got USB C before most PCs, iPads had it for a long time before iPhones, and iPhones switched over 10 years after Apple announced lightning saying it would be their connector “for the next decade”
Apple got an special exemption the last time the EU standardised the port to Micro-USB.
The writing would have been on the wall for them. Especially as thunderbolt 3+ uses the USB-C connector, there was no guarantee the EU would give them exception again, and lightning is almost certainly not designed to handle the wattage needed to charge a Mac.
But otherwise, if not compelled, I doubt that Apple would have carried it over to the mobile devices. The timing is fortuitous, but likely because Apple has a little leeway before the EU forbade their devices/fined them for not following the law.
I have to agree. Switching to USB-C is a big step, but I doubt Apple will become more interoperable unless they are forced to.
Even then, for whatever reason, a (grantedly cheap) 3,5mm->USB-C adapter my dad bought didn’t work at all on his iPhone while it works just fine on my Android
Most every major company tries to build a walled garden. Apple does so via apps and services, services like netflix do by making sure you can’t watch shows on any other service (arr!), or even something as simple as cordless tools that have proprietary batteries and chargers where it gets really expensive to have to buy different batteries.
Destroys their entire business model 😂
Their entire business model has been to focus on systems that lock people in and exclude people who are out. None of this is done for security or as a means for the best possible customer experience. It’s done for the sole purpose of forcing income they couldn’t achieve with innovation alone. I’ve heard so many tech reviewers and even my own personal friends who say they would love to switch if only to try something else. They say they’d switch today if their friends, family and coworkers wouldn’t get mad at them. Apples only real innovation over the past ten years has been built in social pressure.
Trying to get my family to use signal and its like pulling teeth. “Dont you want to be on the same messaging app as everyone”, “sure but you’re the one with a problem”
Mate, I only have a problem because of you!
This is why the only Apple product I’ve owned was a free iPad. It feels claustrophobic to be trapped in their ecosystem.
The only Apple product I’ve owned was my first smartphone an iPhone 4, Never again.
Maybe Nintendo, Sony and MS will be next?
I want a 3rd party store on all my consoles, why can’t I?
Not skilled enough hackerboy 😉🫶🏻
Mod your damn consoles!
While I don’t think people get consoles without homebrew being unlocked first it is still better for homebrew to be unlocked on day 1
It will also give the possibility of open development
I have no doubt the EU won’t have much mercy for American corporations going* forward.
My phone REALLY wants me to type gong. Gong gong gong gong gong.
Go ahead, this is a safe space. Get it out of your system.
Gong gong, gonging gong gong!
bro be like
Huge win!
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Finally. We all about to see better prices and more features. If this ends in lower app store fees, its a massive win for every app company in the world!
It’s a shame Epic lost this lawsuit in the US because “just switch to Android”
Hopefully this actually leads to something lasting, but I don’t have high hopes considering how Europe is getting dragged atm
I mean the EU made them allow app stores but Apple made a complete mockery of them by requiring their rubber stamp and charging “only” 27% fee and the EU is just letting them get away with that so yeah, I have little faith.
There isn’t really any getting away with. If what Apple does is within the law then the EU can’t prevent it. I’m sure somebody is looking into preventing Apple from doing it, but propper legislation takes time.
There isn’t really any getting away with.
But they are. Right now.
propper legislation takes time
They should have thought of that when they created the legislation.
There should be a porn movie with that headline
Not the biggest fan of this tbh. People who want open standards should just not buy iOS devices. It’s not that hard.
Except it is that hard because companies collude and work to drive the competition out of business.
You say that until Google realises that there is no other viable alternative and so they can do the same thing since it’s not like there is another option.
I know you ca try and install other OSes, but that isn’t an option for many, as many manufacturers make acquiring root access impossible.
You answer is basically a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who bought an iphone before they knew about the things Apple did to keep users looked in. Same goes for the acquiring root access on an android phone.
People are not born with knowledge.
You say that until Google realises that there is no other viable alternative and so they can do the same thing since it’s not like there is another option.
Not entirely. I’m fairly sure that, if google decides to lock down pixel devices, the graphene team would evaluate other devices that are more open. The reason they recommend pixels is because they are open, not because they are big google fans. Graphene DOES run on other devices aswell, it’s just not officially tested or supported. And there are other devices with unlockable bootloaders, most noteably older oneplus devices and fairphones.
You answer is basically a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who bought an iphone before they knew about the things Apple did to keep users looked in
No, my answer is a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who voluntarily decides to stick with apple devices despite knowing of their practices. Let’s be honest for just one second: Barely any consumer is so tied into an operating system that it would prevent them from switching. What do most people do with their phones? Listen to music, have a messenger, maybe check emails, browsing - that’s it. And you can do that on any other phone. The amount of people that are apple power users that use applications that only exist in the apple ecosystem is abysmal and largely irrelevant in this discussion.
Same goes for the acquiring root access on an android phone. People are not born with knowledge.
True. Neither was I. But in 2025, we have the internet and you can read up on almost anything imagineable. If I wanted to learn about astrophysics, I could find plenty of videos or resources about it. If I want to learn about japanese history during the sengoku period, there are a lot of resources about that. And if I want to learn how to unlock the bootloader of a phone and install a custom rom, not surprisingly, there are resources for that.
This “People are not born with knowledge” argument is so stupid - nobody is born with it, the problem is just that most people are too lazy to learn about their possibilites to break free from oppressing corporate conglomerates. And THAT’S something I have an issue with.
This is such a lazy argument, it doesn’t add any kind of value and it shows you don’t care about how other people are treated. Please stop doing this.
you don’t care about how other people are treated
True, I do not care about how apple users are treated. They have - voluntarily - decided to buy a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
If we talk about restricting stuff like rent, food prices etc, so essentials, I’m on board. But Apple? Nah. Nobody forces you to shell out that much money for a smartphone.
They have - voluntarily - decided to buy a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
Many Apple users bought their devices before they were aware of Apple’s user look in tactics, let alone how they could be problematic. Most people are not into tech, so they wouldn’t know. Data on tech illiteracy.
a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
Anti-competitive and monopolistic, sure. Anti-consumer? Eh.
Don’t get me wrong, Apple is just as evil as the next guy. Their practices reinforce their market position in an insidious way. But in many respects Apple performs better on the consumer front than, say, their primary competitor Google. Not in every way, but I wouldn’t call their devices “anti-consumer.”
If one of your primary concerns as a consumer is an open platform then yeah, I can see you rejecting outright Apple devices. This could in turn lead to being dismissive of the concerns of those whose priorities differ from yours, though I would strongly advise against such a lack of empathy over something as insignificant as a platform choice. Regardless, curtailing their practices is still important.
If we don’t stop bad behavior because it doesn’t affect us directly, we set bad precedents. Regulatory actions are an important tool.
If we talk about restricting stuff like rent, food prices etc, so essentials, I’m on board. But Apple? Nah.
Fallacy of relative privation. “X is worse than Y, so Y doesn’t matter.” Rent and food prices are important, too, but regulatory bodies don’t operate on a zero sum system. Multiple things can be addressed with multiple efforts. It’s not like the EU is saying “we can ignore starvation and homelessness because at least we cracked down on Apple.”
Anti-consumer?
Inventing your own “standard” and forcing everyone to use it (lightning and webkit) and preventing consumers from having their device repaired from anyone else than a “certified technician” at 4x the markup is definitely anti-consumer.
But in many respects Apple performs better on the consumer front than, say, their primary competitor Google.
Google pixels are not OEM-locked and I can easiely install graphene or any other operating system on them. In the smartphone category, google is the only good vendor, ironically. I bought a used pixel 6 2 years ago, flashed it with graphene and it’s the best phone I ever had.
Regulatory actions are an important tool
Yes, but they’re the last resort. And it should be treated as such. If apple had like 90% of the market share, okay, we can talk about regulations, but right now, apple only has 1/3 of the market, so people can still easiely choose any android device.
It’s not like the EU is saying “we can ignore starvation and homelessness because at least we cracked down on Apple.”
I never said that. I said that these are cases where I would support drastic regulatory actions because this is no longer within the rules of supply and demand - people can’t choose to “not eat”. People can damn well choose to not buy an apple device.
Inventing your own “standard” and forcing everyone to use it (lightning and webkit)
It’s like people don’t remember history anymore. WebKit was a joint venture between many groups. It wasn’t “inventing your own standard” any more than any web browser engine. The restriction to WebKit on iOS devices can be frustrating, but this practice is anti-competitive.
And Lightning replaced another proprietary port, the iPod 30-pin connector. That 30-pin connector was born in a time when standards for device-side connections were not very often utilized. Many devices used proprietary connectors. When Apple transitioned away from the 30-pin, the industry at large was operating with both Mini-USB and Micro-USB, which were both straight-up inferior to Lightning.
The problem with Apple and Lightning is that they didn’t drop it when they should’ve. When USB-C became the clear de facto standard, and they began transitioning all of their other devices to it, they should’ve moved the iPhone over and bit the bullet then. Not doing so, and continuing to charge for MFi certification was, again, anti-competitive. But the existence of Lightning wasn’t anti-consumer.
preventing consumers from having their device repaired from anyone else than a “certified technician” at 4x the markup
Right-to-repair is an important issue and Apple are really shitty about it. I agree. They are not unique, and this also needs to be addressed.
Google pixels are not OEM-locked and I can easiely install graphene or any other operating system on them. In the smartphone category, google is the only good vendor, ironically.
Like I said, “in many respects.” For your use-case, one that you must admit is infrequently utilized, statistically speaking, Google makes a better product that fits your needs. The vast, vast majority of smartphone users are not flashing alternate ROMs to their devices. Most people aren’t power-users, and even most power-users don’t bother. That’s not to say your use-case isn’t meaningful; I’m glad there are still solid options available for a world I used to be a part of!
People can damn well choose to not buy an apple device.
Sure, but does that mean Apple should be allowed to get away with anti-competitive behavior? With practices that seek to force others to use their systems, or to keep users they have from exploring other options? I don’t think so. Bad business practices need to be addressed regardless of whether users have an option to look elsewhere. Especially when the company has a sufficiently large percentage of the smartphone market to force developers to work within their walled garden to hit target audiences.
The problem is they have critical mass so developers are forced to target iPhone. Its a natural monopoly.
The US won’t care as well since they benefit.
Dunno about that critical mass, iOS only has 1/3 of the market in europe while android has the remaining 2/3.
Oh no, not more freedom and rights, please no!
I’m not affected by this in the slightest, and I do not think people that buy iOS devices will care about their newfound freedom
Yeah, most Apple users won’t care or even know, and will just keep using whatever it is that Apple gives them. I don’t see how that’s an issue.
Meanwhile, people who are at least slightly more informed will benefit from the freedom. Things like this are needed because informed consumers too are getting shafted in about every product category. Voting with your wallet doesn’t work in a market dominated by uninformed consumers.
There are also those of us who like some Apple products but do not buy them because of the walled garden. The EU might improve choices for us too.
Voting with your wallet doesn’t work in a market dominated by uninformed consumers.
… then maybe the people should just get more informed.
I don’t see how we need to regulate something that doesn’t benefit anyone as everyone is uninformed anyways and probably doesn’t even care?
… then maybe the people should just get more informed.
I hear they also made crimes illegal. Problem fucking solved.
doesn’t benefit anyone
But it does? Some Apple users will try something else, and even if you aren’t one of them, these practices spread. When Apple gets away with something, others will follow. Android is also getting more locked down with each major release. Maybe you use a linux phone or none at all?
everyone is uninformed anyways and probably doesn’t even care?
The fact that this issue is being discussed by us here and meps/commissioners/etc. at Brussels is proof that not everyone is uninformed and don’t care.
What’s to gain by not regulating this? Do you want the world to collectively suffer from products that are artificially made worse? You can say that ignorant people deserve what they get, but do the others deserve to get dragged down to their level? Everyone should suffer because iphone users are dumb?
Do you want the world to collectively suffer from products that are artificially made worse
I want a world in which corporations are scared to release anti-consumer products because they know it’ll tank their income.
Android is also getting more locked down with each major release
There’s stuff like graphene or other open source OS’s - installing graphene is literally connecting your phone to a PC and opening a website, something even a chimp can do.
You can say that ignorant people deserve what they get, but do the others deserve to get dragged down to their level
Nobody is affected by apple devices getting locked down except apple users, and they chose that.
I want a world in which corporations are scared to release anti-consumer products because they know it’ll tank their income.
I wish. Celebrating customers getting shafted seems counterproductive though. In reality, companies aren’t afraid of making anti-consumer products. Regulation can keep them in check and consumers sure as hell won’t.
There’s stuff like graphene or other open source OS’s - installing graphene is literally connecting your phone to a PC and opening a website, something even a chimp can do.
I know, I run a custom rom too. I also know that custom roms are still Android, meaning they aren’t safe. What do they do when Google makes some restrictive bullshit change again, for example to the android API? Fork it and become incompatible with apps meant for stock android?
Nobody is affected … except apple users
Yes they are. All large companies are constantly looking for more things they can get away with and are ratcheting towards user hostility.
When the non-hostile options are gone, or reduced to a few crappy ones, the educated consumer is fucked. Because what else are they gonna do, not buy a phone? How is a chimp gonna install Graphene when unlocked bootloaders are extinct?
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Oh they do. They love type-c.
Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm. The more we fuck Apple, the less other companies think that it’s OK to fuck consumers.
Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm
Yes, and they would know if people would start voting with their wallets.
The whole point of a walled garden is to stop people (their wallets, really) leaving.
Not only that, it’s also to prevent outside entitys from “hunting” on your playground.
That doesn’t really change anything - you can switch from iOS at any time if you so desire. Most people just find it too inconvenient.
I literally don’t understand the people downvoting you. There’s a whole reason IT exists because people are fucking stupid and do stupid shit with their freedoms. This, in turn, can really hurt others (viruses, worms, botnets, etc) and opening things up really just means larger attack spaces with many more vectors for entry.
I understand the wallet holding aspect, but we should be expecting informed decisions from consumers. Doesn’t the whole of Lemmy bitch about what we’ve done here in America because of being uninformed? Same principles apply to even lesser things like tech.
I literally don’t understand the people downvoting you
That’s just the lemmy hivemind. Nothing to really worry about. When leaving reddit for lemmy, I was 100% expecting that one thing to stay, and I was correct.
I understand the wallet holding aspect, but we should be expecting informed decisions from consumers
Absolutely, I totally agree with that - I’m very sure that many problem we currently have wouldn’t even be a thing if consumers made informed decisions and not ordered everything off amazon because “it’s easy lol”.
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit, it’s a myth corpos are telling people so we regulate them less. They have so much power to inject themselves into human’s lives, make themselves part of your existence. You can for example try to walletvote Microsoft out of your life whatever the fuck you want, while you were trying it, they bought a politician or twelve, and now they’re part of your government, your education system, your military, and your finance sector.
While democracy still exists, the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations.Exactly this! Capitalism without regulation leads to dictatorship of few cooperations that have the power to let you starve, if you not comply.
How do people not see that?!
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit
Disagree completely. It’s the most effective tool we have to control corpos that does not rely on another entity.
they bought a politician or twelve … the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations
So, you yourself say they buy politicians, but in the same sentence, you want the people they are buying to fight their power with regulations?
Do you see where you went wrong here?
That’s the whole point, when you do useless shit like buying from one corpo instead of another, they only need to buy couple of politicians to succeed. The only way for you to combat it is to elect politicians they can’t buy and apply political pressure to the rest of them, so they can’t buy them all. If instead of that you play their game and try to outbuy a corpo that owns half of your country already, not only you will lose every time, you are actually doing exactly they want you to do.
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” is about this, not anything else.How do you leave when your friends, family and coworkers are all on iMessage and refuse to use anything cross platform? This literally affects people’s professional relationships and close personal connections.
No my friend, Apple has perfected lock-in and turned it into an art. Just because it doesn’t affect you doesn’t mean it’s not an issue.
You can see how much of an impact this has - in my (rich European) country only 30% use apple devices and everyone uses WhatsApp for communication (also not good but far better than imessage, and there’s a slow shift towards signal happening)
How do you leave when your friends, family and coworkers are all on iMessage and refuse to use anything cross platform
“Hey, since I don’t want to use apple devices anymore because the company sucks, I’ve decided to ditch it, therefore, I will not longer have access to iMessage. If you need to contact me, you can use XYZ (insert alternative here) or just call me/send a SMS.”
That’s what I did when ditching whatsapp. Is it easy? No, ofc not. Ditching something for moral reasons is never easy. Do you think it was easy for me to ditch microsoft for linux when I started out? Hell no. But it gets other people to think about it. Some will laugh about it and say: “haha my funny nephew who wants to save the world himself (insert laugh emoji here)” while other will be genuinely interested in why you made this decision and might follow it. That’s how you get people to think by the way.
Pretending like you need a specific messenger like iMessage for communication is dishonest at best and straightup stupid and manipulative at worst.
“Hey, since I don’t want to use apple devices anymore because the company sucks, I’ve decided to ditch it, therefore, I will not longer have access to iMessage. If you need to contact me, you can use XYZ (insert alternative here) or just call me/send a SMS.”
that only works when a majority of them relies on you. That’s rarely the situation in reality
Pretending like you need a specific messenger like iMessage for communication is dishonest at best and straightup stupid and manipulative at worst.
thinking like this is ignorant at best and intentionally manipulative at worst
I completely agree with you. So many phones are business tools. Forcing your employer to use the App Store is good. Side loading fly by night bullshit is a risk and lack of oversight the world just doesn’t need. If you want that stuff get an android.
This is very bad. Their walled garden is perfect for the young, elderly, and stupid.
Hopefully some competitor arrives to replace them.
If but perfect you mean perfectly exploitative, sure. The walled garden issue has nothing to do with ease of use my friend; in fact, the whole point is to do the opposite - make anything outside the wall impossibly hard to access or use.
Walled gardens are not good for anyone.
Apple is free to sell phones where walled gardens are allowed. You’re also free to stay in the walled garden, Apple lied to you.
No one is forcing you do use apps outside of the app store. It’s about choice.
If such a competitor emerged they’d not be able to trade in the EU, given the size of the EU economy that ain’t happening.
Yeah because using Android is so difficult
It is not the walled garden that makes it easy, I mean, only because you open up doesn’t mean that your costumer still can buy only apple and it just works…
You’re right, they are like a bike with training wheels, helmet, and pads.
I thought that “walled-garden” was for security and privacy in the case of Apple? I always relied on them for that.
That’s the lie they tell you, yeah.
You can certainly argue that more control makes iPhones safer, since its harder to get malicious software on the phone. But Apple is also abusing their control for their own gain.
You could also argue that locking you in a room would be safer than letting you walk freely out in the world. But I don’t we want that either.
I dunno, are meals provided in the locked room? The world is a pretty fucking awful place right now.
Yes but only oatmeal (no toppings).
Oh goddamnit
The security approach was what first drew me to Apple back in like 2005. The whole focus on proprietary software that resulted in practically zero malware was definitely worth me having to do file-type conversions on documents and all that crap to keep up with people on Windows. And I loved it. And I kept adding every device and loving how seamless they all interact with each other.
But then there’s that shadow side you refer to. The gradual dumbing down of software, the constant hand-holding. The walled garden began to feel like a lock-in.
My last new Mac purchase was in 2011. I still use that machine. But I was not getting security updates and other things I use were leaving me behind so I decided to give Linux a try. Chose Ubuntu and the hardware was suddenly like new again. Apple makes beautiful machines but waste them on some increasingly basic software. My Linux-run Macs have made me fall in love with computers all over again.
If this somehow results in me being able to run like Graphene on my iPhone in a few years, or even connect my Apple Watch to a non-Apple phone, I will be pretty excited.
If people want a phone that acts like an android, just buy an android.
Why are people trying to make iPhones into androids?
Well, but it is just as hard to find exploits for white heads, and this leads to open exploits that last for ages, even if actively used by black heads.
There is no security by obfuscation
You still have the freedom to not use alternative app stores.
I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available. According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe). I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.
Yea, now try to get away from apple again
They have me as well, because I am connected with my family through various apple only features now. Apple One, apple family share, location sharing with family, mail service, photos in the cloud, and a lot more
My family would rather gift me an iPhone than switching all to FOSS services, hell, even only switching my GF to not iOS is pain.
From a market regulation view it is more of a prison than Android.
An example is apps have to use WebKit. That’s right Firefox for iOS doesn’t use Gecko and Google Chrome for iOS doesn’t use Chromium. - That’s the walled garden.What other brands are available to use for iOS?
as long as you don’t want to do some crazy unthinkable thing, like, say, getting notifications on your smartwatch that isn’t made by Apple
I’m having trouble conceptualizing the words you just used in my brain.
Vertical integration is bad, m’kay?
My Android phone (Realme) allowed me to uninstall most pre-installed bloatware.
Does Apple advertise themselves as “we will disrespect our customers”? No? Then they should be banned from the market for matket fraud. Enforcing openness is just a soft way to handle that…
My mum had the choice not to buy Apple, but she did because she thought it’s good, but it’s bad, so it wasn’t advertised correctly.
Nope, it was so they could take the 30% cut of every penny that is spent on one of their platforms, and also so that it would be extremely inconvenient to leave their ecosystem since doing so would mean leaving behind most of your data.
It’s both of those things. Just like Sony, Xbox, Nintendo, Steam, etc. They take 30% in exchange for exposure, security, and a reliable platform. It’s a trade off. Worth it to some, not to others.
Of those steam is the only one that doesn’t force you to buy software through them on their own hardware. Obviously they would like you to, but you are free to buy elsewhere.
Aren’t all Xbox games on windows now? Either through steam, the Microsoft store, or gamepass?
Steam doesn’t belong in that list because you’re free to use whatever game store you want on a PC. No computers are limited to only using Steam.
Not even their own hardware, the steam deck, was in any way closed down. Quite the opposite actually.
And now SteamOS is being used in other platforms, so you can use the software on other hardware vendors if you like
Its primary utility is shoring up their image as the brand where ‘everything just works’ and op/interop is a thoughtless zero friction process. Compromise that and you lose normie, bigtime. So everyone gets locked in…and you get the walled prison basketball court
You’re getting downvoted but how much would you like to bet that once the walled garden is down/third party apps can be installed; we’ll suddenly see “security related apps” installed by some EU law.
If I sound paranoid there’s already an app on Android that scans the content of your photo library (iPhones have this too but it’s only enabled during parental controls, Androids is stealth-enabled 24/7).
It’s called something android core, you can uninstall it, but it may comeback each update.
Honestly, fuck security. I want every app on my phone to phone home to other malicious app stores with all my personal data. I want them to install backdoor VPNs that tunnel all my data to a man in the middle. I want them to allow me to jailbreak my phone so I can install permanent rootkits, that way adversaries can reload their botnets even after I factory reset my phone.
On the real, i appreciate Apple for what they’ve done so far. If this happens, ill have to move back to GrapheneOS. Which is fine, but its just so much more time that I have to spend on making the phone work versus working on the phone.
We should force the entire EU to mandate GrapheneOS on all phones. Well see how much they enjoy the experience.
As a new user of GrapheneOS, I have yet to see the difference with regular Android except that it’s way more secure.
Graphene doesn’t support any of my banking or MFA apps, at least last time I tried it.
GrapheneOS is how Android should be, but its a solitary experience versus iOS, which harnesses the interplay with other apple devices.
Would grapheneOS work well on a Boox Tab Ultra C?
No. GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixel devices. I do not know if the Boox boot loader can be unlocked to support any custom ROMs.
As a tinkerer, stuff like Linux and Graphene are right up my alley. But as a dude with a job and family I just don’t have the time anymore. Apple is far from perfect but their security/privacy efforts are the lesser of the evils for almost no extra time/thinking required from me so they’re the ideal option for now. Really hope all these laws don’t muck that up.
Should you stay with using the Apple app store. It absolutely nothing bad about this decision it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn’t force anyone to.
The amount of bad faith arguments in this thread are disturbing for supposedly informed tech savvy people.
It’s so weird. I can kind of understand this level of ignorance on other platforms, but here? The platform a majority of the people actively sought out because they saw what happens when a walled gardens starts turning against its users?
At the very least, I would’ve expected better arguments than “I don’t want this, so I oppose other’s from having that option.”
it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn’t force anyone to.
That argument sounds great in theory, but would break down after a month or less, when companies start moving their apps off of Apple’s App Store and onto a 3rd party store that allows all the spyware Apple has forced them to remove if they want to have an iOS market. This move DOES force people to use alternate app stores when companies start moving (not copying, moving) their apps over to said stores to take advantage of the drop in oversight.
There is a ton of fanboyism around Apple, same as there was for Musk some years ago.
I love BRAND is just another form of tribalism and one that Apple cultivated for themselves for decades.
(Curiously, going down the thread I saw fewer Apple fanboys that one would find in, say, Reddit)
Reddit doesn’t seem to have a lot of those either, maybe in those apple specific subs, but people prefer android and pc
Can you provide a single real life example of an apple “fanboy” that you have encountered?
The obvious Apple fanboy is the kind of person who sings praises to every single new version of every Apple product even when it barelly differs from the last one, never criticizes their products and goes to a queue outside an Apple store the evening of the day before a new release of an Apple product to be one of the first to buy it next morning when the store opens.
I’ve personally came across a couple of people just like that over the years.
(Granted, they were more common a decade or so ago)
Every single person here doggedly defending Apple’s choice whose argument boils down to “it’s fine it’s as I like it” (whilst ignoring that everybody else has their own likes and dislikes) to justify Apple only having a closed-down environment without an open environment as another option, is probably a fanboy.
“I love it the way it is” isn’t logical, it’s emotional, and there really isn’t a natural human tendency (in most people) to want to have their choices taken away, so something else is at play when somebody defends nobody having any options with Apple other than Apple, with the argument that “I like it like that”, since logically, having the option of an open system won’t take away the option of the closed system for those who like it.
That said, an alternative explanation for such behaviour is that they’re just self-centred people who are extremely used to a specific environment and couldn’t imagine why anybody would want it to be different, a posture which is often associated with fanboyism of the brand which makes that environment, but not always.
Also another explanation is paid sockpuppet.
Honestly, both here and on Reddit I see more of that blind faith for Google and Microsoft. It’s so weird that the open-source community has a slice of people insisting their giant company is somehow virtuous because it’s slightly less fashionable. Even weirder when they write paragraph’s psychoanalyzing imaginary people.
I kinda agree with your sentiment. If I’m spending $1000+ on a device, I want to truly own it and do whatever I want with it. Unfortunately people have gotten very used to companies like Apple telling them what they can and can’t do, and Apple artificially restricting things (like giving first-party apps special permissions that third-party apps can’t get) so they make more money. It’s not great that this is so widespread now. At least there’s people like Louis Rossman that still care about these things.
If the manufacturer wants to have an “easy mode” where they limit what can be done, like what Apple does today, that’s totally fine. Just don’t force it onto everyone.
The issue with “easy mode” is that it can be disabled. Scammers can and will find ways to trick grandma into disabling easy mode on her devices and then get her to install malware.
Thats the thing. I buy apple products for that sole reason rather than use a GrapheneOS device.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted. I want it backing up to the cloud with end to end encryption while syncing with all my other devices. I want it to airplay to my TV. I want it to be a webcam for my macbook. I want it to hold some health data while keeping it out of prying eyes. I want iMessage to end to end encrypt my text messages to other iMessage users.
Why bother getting an iOS device if thats not what you’re after? Their products are some of the most secure devices, with the longest support life. I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone.
Listen, I LOVE grapheneOS. Its just not a complete ecosystem yet.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted.
That’s totally fine… But it should be optional, so that people who want to take full advantage of their device (instead of being restricted) can do so.
I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone
There’s no reason you couldn’t hold an Android phone for just as long. Samsung and Google both offer 7 years of security updates.
We can agree to disagree. I don’t think apple devices should be opened up at all. If you want an opened up device, look for a different manufacturer.
That is such an unbelievably idiotic statement.
“I don’t like it so no one else should have it”, is that your argument? You lose absolutely nothing by Apple opening up their platform. You can just continue to use the app store and it will literally be like nothing happened.
I dont want you in my device. I dont want your third parties. I have no desire to make my device more vulnerable just so you can install malware on yours. Any open apple device is a risk to my closed apple device.
Learn to take “no” for an answer. Let me enjoy the product and use it as I intended. I don’t use it for you.
The UK is so fucking nosey.
What’s the disadvantage of being able to open it up? That’s the part I don’t quite understand. It could be disabled by default and require the user to enable an “expert” or “full featured” mode, or something like that.
I think we’re going to eventually reach a point where the European iPhone is far superior to and more innovative than the American one, just because of the fact that you can do a lot more with it. Apple’s software will have to compete on merit, not just win by default because it’s the only choice available on the device.
I’m actually curious as to if it determines EU vs US based on where you buy the phone, based on country for the account, or based on something else entirely.
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